Existing Gameplay Mechanics & Balance Thread

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Omicron, Jun 5, 2011.

  1. Omicron

    Omicron Green Slime

    Moderator Note: This thread has been renamed to prevent the octo-daily "Fix/Improve This Existing Gameplay Mechanic" thread. Please post additional suggestions of this theme here.

    Combat Improvements. I'll keep this short, sharp and simple.

    1. Headshots should deal more damage. Ranged weapons only.

    2. Jumping while meleeing should deal more damage. Swords only.

    3. Moving/Jumping while shooting should make it less accurate. (accuracy for ranged weapons should also exist. Rather than a straight shot EVERY TIME)

    4. Ranged armour / Caster armours should be added with respective bonuses

    5. The speed at flails are travelling at should change the damage that flails do.

    6. Bows should have a higher damage than guns but they should have a slower R.O.F

    7. Ability to mount scopes on some ranged weapons. Provides an increase in damage and the view will move to the cursor. Higher quality gems used to make it = Longer distance. R.O.F is slowed somewhat.

    8. Star cannon more like an RPG? Does a small amount of terrain damage when impacting with something (Less than a bomb) and slightly increased damage but the ROF is EXTREMELY slow.

    9.Pheonix blaster... Nerf.

    10. Magic buff spells please?

    Feel free to give your opinion on these. Really quick. Wasn't meant to give much detail. That's for you guys and the devs to decide on.
     
  2. Delphidelion

    Delphidelion Green Slime

    go play mount and blade. A lot of this would need an improved physics engine.
     
  3. SignPainter

    SignPainter Green Slime

    Star cannon, maintain the speed. But if you fire and hit too close to you, you suffer damage as well. Don't nerf pheonix blaster, no reason to if you are buffing everything else. And Magic...just make them cooler XD.
     
  4. Little Bluberry Bomb

    Little Bluberry Bomb Green Slime

    Mmyes, another one of these - but if you're anything like me, an overpowered weapon, or a meaningless-feeling endgame will flat out ruin a game. So let's jump right into this, where I do my best to look at the commonly sought 'Overpowered' weapons, give my own opinions as to why I think so, and suggest fixes that may bring them back into line and turn them into an option instead of a necessity, as any piece of top tier equipment should be.

    Star Cannon
    Yes, let's get it out of the way first. I know nerfcalls are all over for this one, but frankly, I agree. 75 damage at a Fast firing rate with piercing shots simply isn't balanced by the so-called hard to get ammunition, at least not in the sense of PvP. Cry foul all you want, but a skybridge and a couple jogs back and forth a night will net you enough to gib a good 5~10 players. It gives far too much an edge to the obsessive collectors, or on the worst of terms, inventory hackers. No item should exist that outright dominates any other, no matter how hard it is to use - because eventually, someone is going to use it, and to full effect, in one way or another - and we're already seeing the effect this weapon is having.
    Suggestions
    - The most logical course of action, in my opinion, is disabling this weapon from doing damage in PvP. Problem, essentially, solved. If people want to boss rush with it or what have you, it's not really a huge problem. PvE will always boast a sense of imbalance.
    - Nerf the speed. Big time. Make it a high damage, low firing rate weapon. A Snail-Speed firing rate and as-is damage and piercing would work fine.
    --Another solution is the speed debuff whilst removing the piercing effect, and causing the stars to have an explosion radius of damage, turning it into a slow-firing 'Rocket Launcher' type weapon. It will still deal massive damage, and even gain utility as a more crowd control based weapon, but it will no longer be able to destroy lines of people in seconds flat.

    Phoenix Blaster
    The next-most-common on the list, I'm sure, I bet I've already got legions of hate mail lined up for me. Simply put, however, the Phoenix Blaster suffers similar problems to the Star Cannon - too high of damage for its high rate of fire. Combine this with ridiculously easy to acquire ammunition, and you're got the only viable standard ranged weapon in the game. The main problem, I believe, comes from the combined damage of both the blaster and the ammo - clocking in at a total 35 per shot with Meteor shots. Add to this piercing capabilities and rebound effects, with the inherent Fast speed, and you should see the problem forming.

    Suggestions
    - Slightly trickier here, as a 'Handgun' type weapon, a Fast speed seems very viable - so the main problem comes from the damage. So the first course of action? Nerf the hell out of it. Down it to only a little over the Handgun. It might even be worth taking the Handgun down slightly, as well, as even in that state it can still deal a lot of damage very fast. The blaster shouldn't break 20, and even that's pretty ridiculous. The range of 15~18 would make more sense, in my opinion.
    - A bit harder to implement, but a viable option, is to force the handgun type weapons to reload every so often - say, 15 shots or so. The delay would cause shots to have to be more carefully placed. As it is, one can just auto-fire piles of bullets and cause some serious damage, which simply shouldn't be possible - especially within tight spaces and ricochet enabled ammo.
    - Not really a solution, but it might help, less Meteor Shots per bar, or weak Meteor Shots. 50 from a single bar would be plenty, and the ricochet and piercing action should be enough to justify these, even without higher damage. In fact, I'd be more in favour of them having a /lower/ damage.

    Muramasa
    AKA The blue chainsaw. Simply outdoes every other melee option in the game by sheer speed stacked upon damage - and the literal A/D - M1 function doesn't help matters.

    Suggestions
    - So I don't think the Muramasa should lose its quirk. It can be a fast-swinging, fairly damaging weapon all it wants to be, but it needs a drawback - without one, it falls way past the overpowered line.
    Taking straight from the legend of the Muramasa - the sword which granted its wielder incredible strength at the cost of their very soul - it should simply have a HP Drain effect. Which is to say, every swing the wielder takes drains their life by a little. Something like 5 HP would be fine. It would add up, especially with Shadowscale Feral builds - the whirling chainsaw tactic would be just as deadly to the wielder as to the target.
    It would force the wielder to think about using their weapon - to balance their waves of outright aggressive all-out swinging with carefully tagged hits and approaches, dodges. No more running at someone while holding down Mouse1 - that would leave you dead before you reached them. Instead, you take an approach, find and opening, and strike with that lightning speed. The very meaning of the glass cannon playstyle - and afterwards, you need to make yourself scarce, as you'll be vulnerable to counter-attacks from the target's allies.

    Sunfury
    Ah, morningstars. Tons of fun... way too powerful.
    The problem with these doesn't persay lie within the damage, or even the piercing effect - it's sensible how it currently works, a large, heavy 'projectile' with a crowd control flavour. No, the problem is the speed here. Note that all these weapons have a 'Slow' speed class. Well... Go grab one, and spam-click it against a wall, see how slow it actually is. If there's meant to be a delay, it doesn't work.
    Simply, hiding in a pit and throwing a Sunfury against the floor can destroy the Eater of Worlds in literal seconds. That should not be possible.

    Suggestions
    - ...Fix the speed. Simple as that. Add a long delay between the mace head returning to your hand, and re-throwing it, no matter how far it went. This encourages the long-range play, carefully utilising the piercing effects of the back and forth swipes, and the physics of the mace, while disabling the ability to pin a horde to a wall and proceed to destroy them. Like any weapon, it should be a tactical choice.
     
  5. Jack Napier

    Jack Napier Green Slime

    I've renamed the thread to prevent the octo-daily "fix/improve this existing gameplay mechanic" thread, I'll be adding it to the Rules thread.

    USE THE LIKE BUTTON! Thanks for reading.

    e: actually I'll just sticky this.
     
  6. DragonRegen

    DragonRegen Green Slime

    You can nerf Starcannon all you want, but why nerf the rest? They are supposed to be higher tier weapons and if you want to nerf them, you should nerf the enemies also to balance out the equation which also brings alot of time consuming edits.

    Weapons that used hellstone bars are hard to get as in you are constantly being harassed almost all the time in the underworld so it's supposed to be stronger than most weapons and not the same tier/power as Meteor weapons.
     
    camnui, Delra and Turkamoeba like this.
  7. Wi§p

    Wi§p Cursed Skull

    Most of these nerfs seem reasonable to me, I would like to see alot more balance changes added to the game when the developers have time to test them out more..
     
  8. Jack Napier

    Jack Napier Green Slime

    Weighted armor. You move slower, jump lower, and accelerate less during flight. To counterbalance mana- and range-bonus armor.
     
  9. Wi§p

    Wi§p Cursed Skull

    There could also be light armor to balance armors with lower defense/abilities.
    (I am sure this has been suggested alot already..)
     
  10. Omicron

    Omicron Green Slime

    You should edit the OP to reflect that.
     
  11. Jack Napier

    Jack Napier Green Slime

    Moderators can not edit posts, I'll see what I can do when it's available.

    e: done!
     
    mokaiba likes this.
  12. Rob Money

    Rob Money Green Slime

    6. Bows should have a higher damage than guns but they should have a slower R.O.F

    Just plain stupid. History of weapons... read up on it. A bow is the basic starter. Once you're out of the stoneage, get a gun. A bow dealing more damage than a gun.... pfft.

    As for crying "overpowered" at all the strong weapons, i've seen this discussion hundreds of times over the span of hundreds of games. Once things start getting nerfed, people cry "overpowered" at the only remaining viable weapon in PvP until they nerf that, then they nerf the next one and so on and so forth until all that's left is a garbage game that's no longer fun to play.

    I'd rather see all weapons viable by being "overpowered" than to nerf anything. That way its just a matter of choosing play style or arena. The biggest fix most of you guys need is an arena with varying terrain so weapon changes are required to win in certain conditions. When the condition changes and one guy is already using the better weapon for said condition, that's when the hand changes b/c each weapon is strong enough to gib the other guy w/o losing a step and a comeback becomes possible.

    As for starcannon, in a what matches i've had there are a couple hundred deaths occuring so quickly via all types of weapons that a starcannon for all its power even w/ infinite ammo just isnt fast enough to dominate as you guys say it does. Assuming you dont hack to fill every slot with stars, you run out fast enough that you need to switch weapons before the fun is over. Also backs up to certain weapons are better based on terrain.
     
    Validis likes this.
  13. Loot

    Loot Green Slime

    I don't see why jumping and meleeing should deal more damage. Everything else I can agree with other than the bow thing.
     
  14. Omicron

    Omicron Green Slime

    The hell-bow (Forgot the name. CBF looking it up) does slightly more damage than the Phoenix blaster... It also fires at half the speed.
     
  15. Wi§p

    Wi§p Cursed Skull

    This doesn't need to be based off of real life you know. Having bow's deal more damage is just a way to distinguish them from guns. And besides, a magical bow should be more powerful than a regular gun. Most of the magic weapons already do more damage than guns.. Anyways currently the Phoenix blaster is way more powerful than any other weapon, because it has some of the highest damage, and a very fast rate of fire. The bullets even bounce.

    The sun-fury/ flails/ boomerangs are way to powerful at close range. They can hit alot, and have almost no recharge.. with very high damage. The muramasa is probably the most balanced of the weapons listed, maybe the other endgame swords simply should do more damage instead.. Also the star cannon does double the damage of any other weapon..

    These either need to be nerfed (either slower RoF, or negative effects), or new weapons need to be added that are just as good. Because other wise, everyone in PvP will be forced use the best weapons, and won't be able to play the way they want to..
     
  16. SloopecK

    SloopecK Green Slime

    I disagree. If they nerf the enemies, the game will be boring.
     
    stormRAGEEE!!! and fouldragon like this.
  17. onislayer

    onislayer Green Slime

    I agree with some of the above posts. There's no point in having high-tier weapons if their going to be nerfed beyond any practical use. Having some weapons better than others is how every game works. If you nerf these weapons than other weapons will be more powerful. There's always going to be somebody complaining to nerf a weapon. Eventually all the "end-game" equipment will be worthless if we nerf anything. If you disagree with the way people strategically play multiplayer PVP, than don't play it. If you feel a star cannon or a pheonix blaster is too powerful, than get one and use it yourself. Than the odds are even. People only whine about how powerful things are, because they lack the skill or determination to get it themselves. There's really no point in striving for powerful equipment if it's going to be nerfed and so weak it's way beyond any practical PVP use.
     
  18. Rob Money

    Rob Money Green Slime

    Fair enough. It doesn't have to be like real life, go ahead and balance the bows for PvP. Make fire/poison arrows with damage over time burning or poison that prevent healing would be a nice bow only effect to make them situational/viable/fun or w/e.

    Ok, so you've pretty much mentioned every weapon type in the game so.... if they're all OP and therefore viable, then why fix something that isn't broken? What weapon are you not able to use PvP that's making these others seem too strong? I suppose a stronger version of Vilethorn as it's the only weapon type that can pierce thru walls/doors would be a nice addition.

    This is simply untrue. PvP doesn't always have to be endgame PvP where everyone has everything at their disposal. I've played start from scratch PvP and it was hilarious fun. Also, I've played in arena's where guns simply weren't viable because you couldn't maneuver well enough to beat a melee weapon or you couldn't fire enough to make the kill before a door was closed and your shots all blocked. People must get creative with their arenas for PvP to balance the weapons and simply leave the weapons as they are instead of trying to fix what isn't broken.

    Lastly, everyone will always use the "best" weapon regardless of what you nerf/buff. There will always be a "best" weapon for a given situation. If you start the nerfs, they'll never stop until everyone's favorite thing is no longer fun to play which causes people to quit playing.
     
    DemonicAnahka and Validis like this.
  19. BBachman

    BBachman Green Slime

    Server Fix

    I love that you may now start a server and play on it in the same instance of Terraria. I am dismayed that this replaced the original server setup because I often have to work, but as my group of friends world holder must leave the game open while I am there. It was a lot easier for me to throw up the server and go to work without worrying about it, whereas now when I come home I have died 89325328904 times because my character MUST be on the server for the server to be open. If there is any way to have both options available at the create a server screen that would be amazing. Thanks!

    -Brandon
     
    Validis likes this.
  20. TeeheeLP

    TeeheeLP Cursed Man

    Just use the new server tool. You don't even have to start Terraria to host a server now.

    And at those people complaining about OP weapons:

    We don't need to nerf weapons, but to get more equal weapons! Equal bows, different but still equal magical weapons, ...

    And I also have a little suggestion:

    Healing

    An item that allows you to heal other people. Like a book that consumes 40 Mana to heal 50 health, an item with a lower effect of that (10 Mana/ 15 Heal), and armor sets and accessoires which increase healing effects.
     
    mandu likes this.

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