Magic Regeneration, and other more supportive Accessories

Discussion in 'Suggestions Archive' started by Ivan The Red, Dec 14, 2011.

  1. Ivan The Red

    Ivan The Red Squirrel

    I'm a mage and I need something to keep my crystal storm going for longer.
    Of course it would over power a mage to have their magic recharging during use or during guided magic like the magic missile, so I'm not asking for that. But there is no worse feeling than fighting the twins when suddenly I go dry. Star Statues are nice but you have to be able to navigate to them, I don't think that mages should be penalized for casting, after all warriors still get their band of regeneration that DOES allow them to regenerate while attacking and taking damage.

    Possible fixes I can see for this would be
    1. Returning the band of star power to regeneration (An extra 20 mana doesn't get me far.)
    2. Making an accessory *mana flower hint hint wink wink ;)* that instead of tapping into my potions does a boosted regeneration effect WHILE MOVING. (Let's face it a mage standing still waiting for mana is a sitting duck.)
    3. Or better customizing Armor to the mage. 100 Extra magic is GREAT, but it only means I have to stand around while the twins have their way with me once I go dry. (Yes I do carry a clock work with me, but it's no megashark, plus it's embarrassing as a mage to whip out a gun.)
    4. Better customize the Emblems to support the character. Let's face it even barbarians want more than just extra damage of of something, and rangers need more support too. This would be a great thing to customize to further separate the classes.

    If you can think of more things please post. This isn't a mage biased thread, it's just what I know. There has to be something that I didn't cover here.
  2. MECHan0kl

    MECHan0kl Slimed Zombie

    Mana flower sounds like a solution to your problems. With it you don't even need to care about mana.
    And, there are already different ways of accesory comdinations that lead to many different roles. Damage warrior, tank warrior, crit ranger, mana mage, cheap spells mage, damage mage etc.
  3. Ivan The Red

    Ivan The Red Squirrel

    I specifically named that the mana flower needs to do something else. So how exactly would that help mages? You might as well have just tl;dr this.
    How exactly does 8% reduction and tapping into my potions help with moving/improved regeneration? 8% is negligible with the end game magics, and is not even close to a balance against the megashark which boast a 50% chance to not consume ammo. Even if it reduced mana usage by 25%, paired with the hallowed set with headgear it would only still be a 45% reduction (close to, but not an exact balance), and there is the lag time between magic regeneration, which was my problem. There is a lot of time waiting for even 300 mana to return, which is life and death in a boss fight because you have to stand still for it to start quick regenerating.
  4. MECHan0kl

    MECHan0kl Slimed Zombie

    Again, with mana flower the only limit to your mana is money. Mana potions do not have cooldown. 1 lesser mana potion costs 1 silver. 100 mana potions=1 gold. 100 mana potions = 5000 mana. 5000 mana = 500 flowers of fire(with mana reduction). 500 flowers of fire(and that isn't even the best spell right now) = 60*500=30000 damage, without even need to regen anything.
    It's a lot. And, if you stop and don't move, your mana will regenerate much faster. AND, if we are not talking about boss fights, monsters drop a lot mana stars, more than life hearts, and they give 100 mana each.
    Last thing. 50% CHANCE to not consume ammo =/= 50% cost reduction.
  5. Ivan The Red

    Ivan The Red Squirrel

    At the end game, money is no longer an issue, especially with mimic hunting. Your math is great except it doesn't take into account for damage per second. Using a flower of fire for 30K damage is mathematically possible, but wouldn't be desirable against end game bosses, because of it's slower use time. The Megashark has all the advantages that mages don't have, and while your correct on the 50% CHANCE to not consume ammo =/= 50% cost reduction, the balance is still off because of the amount of damage per second is greatly in the ranger's favor. The Crystal Storm has a very fast use time but still would have time in between shots to slowly regenerate magic *IF* you could boast regeneration time. Let's assume that because of use time you can get an average of .5 mana per second (which is slow regen, but accounts for use time) that would be a total of 150 over 300 seconds. If you boost the regen to 1 per second that would be a huge help. OR, this really counts during the twins, you could replenish mana in the air around 5-10 per second (not casting) which is still slow regeneration compared to standing still. So once again not only can a ranger dish our more faster, they can do it for less. These are the balance differences that turn PVPs into shoot outs.
  6. MECHan0kl

    MECHan0kl Slimed Zombie

    Well, you are 100% right about minishark's dps. Still, mage has it's own cool features.
  7. Ivan The Red

    Ivan The Red Squirrel

    I love being a mage, that's one reason I would enjoy a slightly better balance between rangers and mages. A slight boost in mana regeneration, especially while airborne, would be better than an 8% reduction of mana usage. A good example of this would be the Crystal Storm. It only uses 5 mana (down to 4 with end game armor) with a use time of 6 which is incredibly fast. Dropping the mana usage from 5 x 20% = 1 = 4, so 5 x 28% 1.4 = 3.6 which is still displayed as 4. So from 300 mana to 0 it is 75 shards because no regeneration occurs and take 7 seconds (mana flower equiped no potions.) Assume now that you regenerate at a faster rate let's say you can only regenerate 1 per second for the entire burst (Running on ground) you could dish out 77 shards in 7 seconds (no potions). At a base damage of 26 that would be 278.5 per second compared to 286 per second (75 x 26 / 7 and 77 x 26 / 7) If you could regenerate that 5-10 in while falling like I mentioned you would have (using 8, since 7.5 would be half way and I'm rounding up) 89 Shards in around 7 seconds which is 330.5 dps (89 x 26 / 7)

    The Megashark has the same use time of 6, but combine with a hallow set boost ammo conservation to 62.5 so if a perfect 62.5% chance occurs you can fire 667 times CONTINUOUSLY on a single 250 stack of ammo.

    If anything the emblem could be customized to grant better regeneration abilities.

  8. MegaKykyRyky

    MegaKykyRyky Slimed Zombie

    They should bring back the old band of starpower as well as stacking accessories
  9. MECHan0kl

    MECHan0kl Slimed Zombie

    I'm in game, with hallow mage armor and mana flower - it costs 3. And don't forget that you can use mana flower and Nature's gift.
  10. Protato911

    Protato911 Green Slime

    great idea, compare to other classes mage are slightly weeker even though its more enjoyable to use.
  11. Ivan The Red

    Ivan The Red Squirrel

    It does get reduced to 3? I haven't checked cost since adamantite. So let's do the new math.
    300 / 3 = 100 (duh) 100 x 26 / 7 = 371.4 dps - no potions
    307 / 3 = 102.3 so 102.3 x 26 / 7 = 379.9 dps - 1 mana regen a second (in between use time of 6) no potions
    356 / 3 = 118.6 so 118.6 x 26 / 7 = 440.5 dps - Average of 8 mana regen while falling (in between use time of 6) no potions
    *note that draining a mana pool may be closer to 8 seconds now*

    I still see on average a huge boost in damage per second just by adding a small bit of regen. I know that the potions are still going to be used and that's fine, I'm not debating that. What I am going to debate is that this slight increase in damage can be a huge benefit to a mage. Especially end game where the boss battles have you using your wings most of the time.

    Another thing I should add is that these numbers aren't an automatic gimme. You still have to aim and hit what you are intending to. So missing just once can reduce these numbers, and 5 misses can really hinder you.
  12. SFJake

    SFJake Dark Caster

    I don't get it. You have potions, and that makes your regeneration absolutely, completely irrelevant.

    And any "fix" around mana is worthless and unnecessary if -that- doesn't change.
  13. Ivan The Red

    Ivan The Red Squirrel

    I really don't see what you don't get, the math is all laid out. A tiny boost in regeneration does add toy your mana pool and will increase the amount of damage done per potion by extending the time (however insignificantly) slightly. I'll show you mathematically what I mean.

    I'll use the falling regen of 8 and the hallow set + mana flower now. (This would be like a twin battle)
    The numbers below represent the capabilities of your mana pool
    300 / 3 = 100 (duh) 100 x 26 / 7 = 371.4 dps - no potions no regen
    356 / 3 = 118.6 so 118.6 x 26 / 7 = 440.5 dps - proposed increase (falling/jumping)

    Therefore: we can conclude that every 100 mana provides 33.3 crystal storm chards which takes 2.31 seconds
    Increasing the regen by 8 falling provides 18.48 more mana in 2.31 which will equate to 6.1 more shots
    So, increasing the amount of mana you regen will inherently increase the amount of damage you do on your normal pooland how much each potion is doing, indirectly.

    Let's only look at the difference between what the hallow armor does equipped with the mana flower using only 1 pot.
    *400 will be the new mana pool limit.* Time will be increased to 9* 26 base damage remains the same for Crystal Storm*

    400 / 3 = 133.3 so 133.3 x 26 / 9 = 385 dps - Still below the proposed increase JUST off of a slight increase to regen
    total damage in 9 seconds = 3465.8

    472 / 3 = 157.3 so 157.3 x 26 / 9 = 454.4 - this is just the 8 regen a second (in air, assuming you will fall for that long)
    total damage in around 9 seconds = 4089.8

    There is no way to argue that you aren't getting more for your money.

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