PC My Fellow Terrarians

Discussion in 'Dev Blog' started by Redigit, Feb 21, 2012.

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  1. Kelaria Green Slime

    Hmm, let's review:
    So yes, you did insinuate that anyone on my side of the discussion IS a greedy, self-entiteld, whining, immature child, not that our "disrespect" (as you call it) is such.

    How are we disrespecting him exactly? Is it not disrespectful to take advantage of the people who trust the very nature of indie games (not saying that trusting all indie gamers is wise, just that people tend to trust them more than big name publishers because they generally seem to care more about their fans and less about the money, at least that has been my limited experience dabbling in indie game purchasing)?

    He presented himself as an indie developer who cared about his community. The fact that even a single person got this impression of him means that he gave that impression (regardless of his intent).

    He is asking for our trust when he sells us an unfinished product and starts listing all the great things he has planned for said project. I don't care if the monetary amount was $2 or $200, he still sold his product and therefore has an obligation to his consumers/customers to make sure they're happy.

    Oh, he doesn't have to make sure we're happy, but the fact that he's asking us to purchase his potential new product is just kinda ridiculous if he's going to ignore that his decision did have a rather large backlash.

    He's really kinda shot himself in the foot here, to be honest. He had something great going for him. A great moneymaking game that won indie game of the year and a huge and loyal fanbase that was supporting him and would have supported him for a long time to come. His abandonment of Terraria and lack of communication after the fact (except for that whole "chillaxin" thing) is just idiotic! Why piss on your future customers? If he had stuck it out with Terraria, or at least made a better decision than this one, I would have been glad to support him in his future games if they were of any interest to me! Now? Hell no. I'm not going to take a gamble with my money like that, no matter how paltry the amount. $10 goes a long way for some people.

    ETA: Also, I'm not demanding more, I just feel that he insinuated we would be getting more, which is his own fault. Leaving us hanging at this point is tantamount to failing in his obligation to his customers. He's free to do that, if that's what he wants to do, but he seriously can't expect all of us to be like sheep and follow him over to his next project mindlessly and just fork over more of our money for another project that he might abandon.
  2. Klokinator Raincoat Zombie

    Hi guys, I'm protection boner man, and I bold words to prove points that make no sense, and some time I bold words just because I can.

    I don't really listen to reason, I like defending large corporations and indie developers from any sort of attack, because they're good people, no really they are.

    This message brought to you by Mitt Romney 2012.
  3. I'm tired, just had a pretty rough day, and a really relaxing evening, so I won't take up too much of my time typing this.

    I remember reading more than one recent comment of people saying it's Red's choice to leave, yada yada, all that jazz, and at least one argument that Red wouldn't want to come back here to face the criticism, as an explanation to why there's no word from him.

    Thing is, Red gave almost zero real communication from the beginning, didn't announce his leave of Terraria until the very day he made this topic, and pretty much seemed to ignore all suggestions or feedback, both pre-current topic and post-current topic.

    That's not good PR, and no amount of defending him can prove otherwise.

    As for the whole "He can leave whenever he wants." argument? No argument there. His project. His career. His life. Can he leave when he wants to? Yes. Is it wrong to demand that he doesn't? Sure, yeah, it's pretty wrong to deny a man freedom to make his own life choices. Does that necessarily mean it wasn't a dick move to just leave out of nowhere, giving no word beforehand, with no one but the fans who are reading between the lines and assuming for themselves that something's up thinking anything is wrong until the topic hits the dev blog? Not one bit. Does that mean he's making good PR and making a positive name for himself in the field of his chosen career as an Indie developer? No. Of course not. He's burning bridges and practically handing out proverbial kerosene to the fanbase with this decision.

    Edit: I'm not greedy or self-entitled, beye the way. I'm poor and cheap. Yes, I will admit that I'm cheap. I made the smart decision to buy the game for $2.50 during Steam's Thanksgiving sale, and I was right to make that decision. Have I complained once about my cash going to waste? Nope.
    Kelaria and PsychoNerd like this.
  4. Kelaria Green Slime

    While I find your post, once again, hilarious... I do think we should leave politics out of it. It can only lead to trouble!
  5. iNfiniTe Se7eNz Official Terraria Online Post Whore

    I'm not the best at language, I see how that could be misconstrued. I shouldn't generalize that anyone with that view does that in ALL situations. Sorry.

    If you bought the game BECAUSE it was an indie, then that seems like a foolish decision.

    Nothing but the occasional text statement can hardly give you something to build off of in terms of character judgement.

    And he made good on that promise. Granted, not all of it, but hey, if you got your money's worth, why complain when you don't get more? And people will always demand more. They'll never be happy unless they just deal with what they've got.

    That's like telling Activision to not advertise the next CoD.

    Most of the money to be made had already been made, hence the CE, t-shirts, etc. He wanted more money. You can't expect a capitalist to not grab for more money should the situation present himself. Once again, the "loyal" fanbase is a very small piece of the whole fanbase. If he had not abandoned Terraria now, he would have done so later, and with this same shit storm of complaints. Again, I already addressed the lack of communication. Courtesy is not present in everyone. But courtesy is only a small aspect of character. And good for you, gambling is bad. I only bought Terraria after 1.0.5, after watching an LP of it and being assured that I would like it. It's not the best idea to invest in what isn't there, especially where (at the time) only 3 people were involved.

    Not sure when you bought the game, but the community as a whole sure as hell got more.
    Not entirely my fault if you can't make sense of my points. Bold is for emphasis on key areas. It's funny because the reasoning is flawed, which I point out. And finally, I don't believe in "good" people. I'm far too much of a pessimistic, hypercritical, cynical asshole to see "good" people.
    I never said that his PR was good, I myself would like an explanation. But hey, I'm not nagging him or insulting him for not giving me one.
  6. retrox Green Slime

    Around and around the mulberry bush we go...

    This will probably be my final substantive post on these forums. I have to say that I was warned elsewhere to not come near here (cesspool was the precise word chosen), but I'm glad I did. There are some really sharp minds, interesting discussions, and generally good people among the... well, undesirable elements here.

    It's no mystery to me why Redigit is finished with Terraria. I write songs and record them in my own personal little digital studio, mostly for my own enjoyment. Many of them I'll record multiple times. I've got songs I've been "working" on for months, even though the songs were out of the composition phase a year or more ago. Why keep recording them, then? Well, I might decide to alter the bass line a bit; or maybe one of the guitar tracks could've been a little tighter. Or maybe I felt the toms on the drum kit needed a little more punch. Sometimes I might even decide to throw an entire synth horn section or something crazy into the mix, just because the inspiration grabs me one day. There are any number of reasons why I keep hammering away at one or two songs for weeks on end. But the one thing the songs I work on compulsively like this have in common is that they're my favorite songs, the ones that I love the most, the ones that have the most meaning to me.

    But you know what, no matter how much those old songs mean to me, eventually I'll get the muse that always ends up coming, often unexpectedly, and I need to write something new. I know that there are creators here on these very forums, whether you're painters or musicians or sculptors or programmers. People like us need that creative outlet. We can only hone our creations to what we perceive as perfection for so long before we grow bored with them, and usually that happens hot on the heels of inspiration striking us anew. We need to constantly challenge our own imaginations to better ourselves as artists, otherwise we end up creatively stale and the technical proficiencies that we worked so hard to obtain grow stagnant as a result.

    If you do not think that Redigit has invested a piece of himself in Terraria, you're simply wrong. I don't care what sort of scoundrel you think he is (and a scoundrel he may very well be), but on this matter you're just wrong. No artist is good enough to fool himself into believing he loves his own work if, in his heart of hearts, he doesn't. Terraria is his baby, his firstborn, and regardless of whether or not he decided at any point along the journey that his #1 objective in completing it was to get rich from it, he could never have made it as good as he did without wanting to. I say that with certainty, ladies and gentlemen. Absolute and total conviction. I don't profess to know the guy or understand his motivations, but I will not budge on that assertion. He could come out and tell me himself right now that he only made Terraria to get rich from it, and I'd call him a ****ing liar. Just like the nerdy kid in high school who bragged about bagging the hot cheerleader (that was me!) so that his nerdy friends would think he was cool. Pants on fire.

    And now he wants to do something new. Maybe he wants to make more money too, but he also wants to do something new. Which consumers among those reading this do not want to earn more money to spend on the things they enjoy? Which artists among those here do not want to create something new when inspiration strikes and finances allow? Who among you, artists and consumers alike, doesn't want to earn a healthy living for yourself and your family doing what you enjoy? Zero hands are raised.

    Now, with all that pompous post-bloat out of the way: Wow, what a terrible exit strategy. The difference between my art and Redigit's is, obviously (and painfully, I might add), thousands of people love his work. Redigit's biggest mistake was that he shared his intentions with Terraria just a bit too much. The question is, why did he do that? Was it a deliberate effort to deceive and mislead in order to keep the Steam payments rolling in? Or was it simply a matter of his own passion for the project writing checks that his creative drive couldn't cash? Until someone proves to me otherwise, I'm sticking with the latter. Why? Firstly because I tend to give people I don't know the benefit of the doubt before passing judgment on them (doubly so on the internet), and secondly because as an artist and creator myself, option #2 just makes the most sense to me in the context of what I posted two paragraphs up. He's tired of it, creatively drained by it, and ready to utilize the technical proficiency he's gained from it by creating something entirely new from the ground up. There is only one thing that he would have to gain by continuing to work on Terraria for another year: He would become very, very good at working on Terraria. That's about it.

    Oh, and he would likely continue to profit from it well into the future. Did I mention what a terrible exit strategy he had for Terraria? Yeah, I think I did. But again, I'm in full support of that argument. Have been from the start. No dispute there.

    I'll finish up by reiterating that the character assassination I see going on here is ugly, pointless, and most importantly, totally counter-productive to the cause that everyone should be supporting if you really give a **** about the game called Terraria.

    And now, I'm going to go play some games. Who knows, maybe I'll fire up Terraria. Nah, kinda burned out on that one. :cool:
    Hitoru Tenmaru and k0rd like this.
  7. iNfiniTe Se7eNz Official Terraria Online Post Whore

    Very possible theories. However, all's up to speculation. All we know is Redigit did not handle PR very well.
    And really, that's nothing, for lack of a better metaphor, to get one's panties in a knot about. Which is what many people are doing.
  8. k0rd Fire Imp

    wait: are you the nerdy kid or the hot cheerleader?
    Jerks and Klokinator like this.
  9. Klokinator Raincoat Zombie

    Nerdy hot cheerleader. It's a Winfail.
    k0rd likes this.
  10. retrox Green Slime

    wait: is the nerd the win or the fail?
  11. iNfiniTe Se7eNz Official Terraria Online Post Whore

    Depends on how nerdy. Then again, if she's a bad cheerleader... that could lead to some rather amusing fails.
  12. k0rd Fire Imp

    i don't know, but i had to put my glasses on to read that for realsies
  13. Kittani1977 Green Slime

    Been real, been fun, good luck with the new family member.

    I'd ask that you would consider, after sales start to diminish, that you release the source so people from the community can continue the project. Or at least find a buyer for the rights to continue development from the community.
  14. Redigit Developer

    - Promised updates -

    For the majority of the game's development, I was more or less just using the game as a testing ground to play with different ideas and learn C#/XNA. That said, Terraria was released way before it's time. Between the immense social pressure and the leak, I didn't really have much choice but to play the hand I was drawn and release it as is. Obviously I was going to keep working on the game until it got to the point where I was happy with it.

    Looking at all the different paths I could take the game right now, nothing really excites me. It all feels like sideways progression. That's why I know it's time to take what I've learned and start working on it's successor. I imagine you might make the claim that I "got bored and quit," but really without the excitement/obsession/drive, can you really expect future updates to be anything better than the status quo? Now looking down the road toward Terraria's successor, that's what is exciting me. It was never my intention to mislead anyone, and I am sorry if I did.

    - Stopped updating out of the blue -

    There really is no other way to say "no more updates" without saying "no more updates." After losing my spriter to a potentially competing game, and having to take some time off for my own personal reasons I figured the most honest way would be to just get it out now then taking several months off and then come back to announce that I am working on another game.

    - Open source the game -

    This will probably happen eventually, but the decision to not obfuscate Terraria was made for a reason...;)

    - Handing off -

    This isn't going to happen, though I'd love for a dedicated group of modders to pick up the torch and carry on. For one, things can get complicated very quickly in the legal world. I also feel that Terraria is pretty solid as it is, and I am not sure that I would like the direction that it would take if I wasn't the one to work on it. After the following of SMBX and Terraria, you have to give my design choices some credit. :p Now for my handling of the community on the other hand...

    - Bad at PR -

    This I agree with. Dealing with people has never been my strong suit. I've been told several times that I should have hired a profession PR guy, but that really is just putting someone between you and me that does little more than candy coat things to make them sound better. (I probably should have done it anyway)

    I think I really just got off to a bad start after the Nintendo/SMBX thing and the game getting leaked in beta. I got a lot more defensive than I should have been, and refused to share information about things until they were set in stone. But I guess if I didn't do that then there would have been a lot more "promises" not being kept. I'm probably being overly honest here, but there have been some pretty nasty things posted on TO, and I've learned that the best way to not let them get to me is to distance myself from the forums. (I am a human after all!:eek:)

    I failed with this, and I am sorry because you all really did deserve better from me.

    - Greedy -

    Money does complicate things doesn't it? Like I said in an interview before, this isn't really a business to me. Yes I've made a good amount of money and have a lot of customers, but I just want to make the best game I can. Simple as that. If I really wanted to milk it I would have release 1.1 as DLC and there would be all sorts of pets and mounts that you could buy for several bucks a shot. Is that going to help to make the game better?

    I receive very little from the shirts and CE (I'm even wondering how it's possible for developers to survive the retail world in the first place) Those were all about getting cool Terraria things in the real world.

    - Quit SMBX just Terraria -

    SMBX just like Terraria was something I did to learn and experiment with gameplay. At some point you have to call a project finished so you can take what you've learned and move on to make something even better. I made no promises with SMBX and made it clear that it was something that I work on in my own time. If I was still working on it right now, there would be no Terraria.

    As for the Nintendo fiasco.. I'm sure there is a Nintendo PR guy somewhere with a huge grin on his face knowing that SMBX was shutdown and Nintendo took none of the blame for it.
  15. Klokinator Raincoat Zombie

    Red, I'm your biggest "opponent" here, and I say, good post, and thank you.

    I'll edit this post in a few minutes.

    There have been probably hundred of opinions expressed on this subject alone, and I did want to believe this was the truth but due to your silence on the matter, I figured it wasn't.

    If you want my opinion, hire a spriter just for a little bit, work out the kinks, fix multiplayer and uh, well that'd be enough, honestly. That's what bugged me the most, dropping the project when there are plenty of options financially and legitimate issues in it. I mean, unless $500,000 doesn't do as much as it used to :p


    Next time, use more clear language and try and include at least "I'm sorry" in the post where you drop it out of the blue. Kk? K. I forgive you.

    Also, if, you know, the other game is supposedly a competing game, why the hell would you advertise it in your cancellation thread? Something smells fishy here... I recommend clearing that up before more rumors start.


    Ho ho, one issue resolved at the least!


    And I apologize for saying many of those nasty things. I felt as if you took my money, slapped me in the face, and grinned at me on the way out. I still feel ever slightly annoyed, but I'm not mad anymore.



    Best sentence ever written, humility will take you far, friend :D


    Good good, any truth to the rumors about a leaked chat where you said all you cared about was money?

    My point wasn't quitting work on SMBX as a bad thing (I could care less, never even used the damn thing) but as there are rumors that you faked the whole thing, it seemed awfully suspicious when compared to the sudden cancellation of Terraria.

    I don't 100% like you and back you, (Maybe only 80 or 90% now :p) but I respect you for this humble post and I forgive you.
  16. Lord Carver Werewolf

    But what about the pet system? Will the modders have to add that themselves? If they do have to take that over, I hope it cuts away all CE sales.
  17. k0rd Fire Imp

    thanks for getting back with us.
    everyone taking their time to post here - whether they like you or hate you, all subscribe to a degree of terraria fandom.
    that says a lot :p
    PsychoNerd likes this.
  18. Hobobob38 Green Slime

    Thank you for finally saying something :p Sucks it's done but good luck on your next game. (I will almost definitely buy it.)
  19. SergeantSpears Slimed Zombie

    I haven't read near a sliver of this pile of complaints, and long posts of whining, cause I don't care enough to read them, if all it is is whining and I know it is then I don't care to waste time with it. Now with some people reasoning and calming the whiners, I agree with them, but negative comments on any type of forum are just not nessicary. Everyone who made a negative comment obviously DOES NOT WANT TO BE HERE, so all of you who left a negative comment, ask yourselves, why are you? Some of you have given Red some crap, and if you feel guilty that he stopped developing terraria shortly after, that should be telling you something. But he had a VERY GOOD REASON to cease development, and you can't whine over that, but instead you ignore the reasons and turn to your own selfish desires thinking you deserve more even if you did or didn't give Red red crap. Now if ANY PLAYER whatsoever ever puts another negative comment after this one, YOU WILL BE TURNING TO YOUR SELFISH DESIRES, and posting that comment will prove it even more that you don't deserve more terraria content. I myself have accepted that terraria Is done, and I am fine with this cease of development, it's a great game, IT IS AT ITS PRIME. I will continue to enjoy this great game fore MUCH more time, and I hope you do too! And those who say terraria is dead... That's none sense, terraria is still here, a great game to play, and it will still be here years later. Redidgit, good luck man!
    Everyone else, rock on! Terraria, "Live long and Prosper" (I couldent resist).
  20. BouncyTEM Green Slime

    Thank you for taking the time to respond, Redigit. That's exactly the sort of explanation I was hoping to see, regardless of what the points were. As it happens, I can <finally!> understand the logic behind everything so even if I disagree with tidbits here and there, I'm extremely thankful you actually responded to clarify things.

    This resolves a lot. :>
    Dragonized and PsychoNerd like this.
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