My insight

Discussion in 'Console' started by dfox4u, Nov 13, 2012.

?

Yes or No

  1. Yes

    1 vote(s)
    16.7%
  2. No

    2 vote(s)
    33.3%
  3. Impossible

    3 vote(s)
    50.0%
  1. dfox4u

    dfox4u Green Slime

    Hello

    This account has been inactive and I'm glad to be back. heres my insight on Redigit selling Terraria to 505games.

    When Redigit stopped updating, i was furious, but wasn't blaming Redigit, he has a family and a baby boy (it is?), and i don't blame him for having to stop updating to help his family and baby.
    I was ok when he sold Terraria to 505 games, because it means Terraria gets to live on. 505 is showing all the work to Redigit so he knows whats happening, so it will still have novelty!

    What do you think when i put it this way?

    Thanks,
    Dfox
     
  2. Mr.Bear

    Mr.Bear Green Slime

    He sold the console rights, he still owns the PC version I believe.
     
  3. dfox4u

    dfox4u Green Slime

    He would yes.
     
  4. Gmodlol61

    Gmodlol61 Necromancer

    Thing is, now the console is the only game to be updated while red is either trying to get a proper holder for the PC or just sits there doing something dumb while we're tearing the forum apart with these threads.
     
  5. dfox4u

    dfox4u Green Slime

    Not sure what that last part means lol :/
     
  6. Oranje

    Oranje THE Orange Troll

    That he has a son is not really an excuse. My grand-dad made 11 hour shifts a day and he had 11 children.
     
    Stackerzgame likes this.
  7. kirabook

    kirabook Ex-Min Staff Member

    because your grandad is the only type of dad on earth
     
    Garneac likes this.
  8. Jeckel

    Jeckel Little Red Fire Ant Staff Member

    Definitely not the only kind, but it would be hard to argue that people quitting their jobs after having a baby is anything but the smallest of small minorities. And to be fair, the ever magical baby-who-needs-24hour-attention is the only reason the OP bothered to cite for Red abandoning the game. It is only logical to point out that reason is weak at best.
     
  9. kirabook

    kirabook Ex-Min Staff Member

    But I feel, after being here for so long and talking about this topic over and over again, others should realize that having a kid is not the only reason why he left, therefore, they should not even indulge in a conversation that assumes the baby was the only reason.
     
    Morfessa likes this.
  10. Jeckel

    Jeckel Little Red Fire Ant Staff Member

    I don't necessarily disagree, but I think that comes down to the seniority syndrome, namely that if you have been around to hear an argument enough times, your just going to get sick of it, but that doesn't mean that everybody is sick of it, especially the newer people that maybe haven't discussed the topic as many times as us old salts.

    Sure, everyone keeps bring up the little-bundle-of-time-demands even though it was only one of the reasons Red gave, but I think that is just indicative of how ridiculous and out of the norm the idea of quitting your open-houred job when you have a baby is. While it may get annoying, it isn't surprising that the hardest to swallow reason is the most brought up.

    Heck, I wish my neighbors would stop arguing about her spending all of his money on crack. However, just because I've been around long enough to know that her promises to quit will just lead to the same bullhorn-volume fight the next weekend, that doesn't mean that the experience is any less new and emotional to them. Just cause something is old to me or you or Joe Otherguy doesn't mean it is old to everyone. :)
     
  11. kirabook

    kirabook Ex-Min Staff Member

    I'm sick of it, but I can tell the difference between people who are new and are only just discovering this stuff and others who have been around for a nice good while and know, in general, that there are multiple reasons why he left. It's similar to how I have to tell the same members over and over again, members that have been here as long as I have, to stop being jerk offs to new members if they don't happen to know something.

    I have no problem with the OP, though I still wonder how out of that long list of things, the baby is THE thing that catches peoples eyes. But it does annoy me that long running members still feed into the idea that the baby is the only reason why he left, their parents are better because -insert x reason-, which is why he shouldn't have left because its a bad excuse.
     
  12. Jeckel

    Jeckel Little Red Fire Ant Staff Member

    I sympathize with you. I'm constantly amazed at how repetitive the internet can be in its repetitiveness, but at some point you have to chalk the repeat offends as beyond redemption and just learn to ignore them, for your own sanity.

    As for why people keep going to the baby point, is because it just doesn't ring true with the modern norm of both parents (or the parent in single parent homes) working through out a child's life. Quitting your job when you have a baby is as out of place now as both parents working would have been back in the 1950s. It touches a societal nerve in a weird way and sticks in peoples mind. He lost his inspiration, only sideways progress was possible, he lost his team and was all alone, or any of the other official or fan explanations, they all pale in memorability compared to "he quit Terraria because his wife had a baby".

    Some of us are happy to argue that Red should or shouldn't have hired a new team and whether it is or isn't acceptable to quit a commercial project just because you lost the inspiration, or any other theory, but, just as most people would rather watch reality tv over a documentary, most people would rather debate the more dramatic topic of proper parenting decisions. Its frustrating, but what are ya gonna do, this is the world wide web and most people in the world aren't worth the paper they're printed on.
     
    Oscurita likes this.
  13. Loki ISP

    Loki ISP Moderator Staff Member

    My wife quit her professional job when we had kids. It wasn't a question of time, it was a question of priorities. The right choice was made. Maybe Reds wife is the breadwinner...maybe they are financially secure...who knows?

    The point? None of us is fit to sit in judgment around the personal or family decisions of another - no matter what society's norms tell us. History will show "society" has had a lot of I'll conceived notions when dealing with stereotypes or projective judgment in the past.

    If Red did indeed choose his kid/family over us and had the wherewithall to do so financially, kudos to him for having his priorities straight.

    Doesn't make me happy for the decision, but I won't second guess it or vilify it - if that were the reason. I don't fully understand the rationale since with what third parties will or won't be allowed to touch the game...so that is kind of laying out there as a WTF...but if he was done, he was done at least individually.

    (Disclaimer: I do not think this was the primary reason...rather a catalyst on top of an already waning internal passion around the game)

    My frustration is around the nasty rhetoric coupled with the moebius-like logic cycles and the virus-esque nature of it all...not the valid points themselves when raised respectfully.
     
    Oscurita and Garneac like this.
  14. kirabook

    kirabook Ex-Min Staff Member

    Of the list of things, the thing that stuck out to me was the notion that Terraria could only go linear. I completely disagree with that and I'm saddened and disappointed that he feels that way.

    People live in all kinds of different families and we really really don't know very much about Red to judge him so heavily on his baby reasoning. What if it's like Loki's explanation? What if Red is the "mother" that society usually labels women as? What if he actually has a full time job and Terraria was just a hobby and his hobby time will now be spent on raising his child?

    People say, "Oh, it's so easy to add things into Terraria real quick", but what if he wants to do it the right way? (as in, sit down, plan out entire environments, recipes, events, etc rather than just adding a quick item or two?)

    What I'm basically trying to say is, I guess some people put social norms above logic more than I though. Rather, I shouldn't say logic, but reasoning. His other reasons had much more of an effect on my compared to his baby business.
     
  15. dfox4u

    dfox4u Green Slime

    Sorry if this thread is a bit off. ive been missing out on stuff.
     
  16. kirabook

    kirabook Ex-Min Staff Member

    It's not problem, I didn't expect you to know the in and outs as I haven't really seen you around
     
  17. Jeckel

    Jeckel Little Red Fire Ant Staff Member

    First, just let me say that I was not defending any of the people that pick one reason and just harp on it to the exclusion of any other reason. I was just trying to provide some possible reasons as to why the baby issue, specifically, seems to be singled out more often than the others. I wish all people, on all topics would provide thought out, detailed, and well reasoned arguments, instead of hyperbolic one-liners and ad hominem insults.

    Second, I spent a good portion of my twenties helping to take care of other people's children, mostly foster kids in the baby and toddler range, and I consider raising children to be the only "real" thing a person can do with their life. If Red did quit Terraria to spend time with his baby, then I don't personally think that makes him a bad person or a bad father. Though, in my opinion, the entire situation does make him a sub-par developer, but not specifically because of the baby thing.

    Just wanted to make it clear where I stand on these two issues. Now back to the quoting and responding.

    --------------------------------------------------

    That is wonderful. :) My mother also quit her full time job, in favor of a less demanding part time job, when I was born. Maybe there is still more stigma tied to a father leaving his job than a mother doing the same? A hold over from the time when it was expected for a mother to be home with kids?

    I agree with the norms of society not always being right and, in fact, sometimes being any where from bad to down right evil. However, we can say that norms and traditions of the past are wrong exactly because we can judge the actions and behavior of others in many circumstances. Nothing is going to convince me that I don't have the ability or permission to judge the parents of Honey Boo Boo as examples of the worst that backwoods familyneering can produce and precisely the opposite of good parenting.

    We either are or aren't our brothers' and sisters' keeper, can't have it both ways.

    Yes, much kudos to him and his. Every single baby is a blessing. Well, until they become teenagers. ;)

    In my opinion, the main reason was that Red was bored with Terraria. The fun part of development was over and he was faced with the real work of making software: rewriting and rewriting code until you have a solid, dynamic framework to build on. It is the equivalent of making a clubhouse versus building a real house. One is all about the fun of making a cool place play in and the other is about doing hard work to make a building that will stand the test of time. Nailing planks and plywood together and then hanging some posters and a "no girls!" sign is fun, repetitively running wires, pipes, ductwork, hanging drywall, pouring foundation, and all the other important details of building a real house isn't really "fun" until your done with it and can enjoy your accomplishment.

    To be fair, that could be applied to just about any debate on the internet. Moebius-like logic cycles, virus-esque nature, nasty rhetoric, yea, that sounds like a good portion of every discussion of a controversial topic I have ever read on the web. Don't even have to look at something real like politics or religion, just look at any Star Wars vs Star Trek debate, a proper pronunciation argument between two grammar cops, the PC vs Mac rivalry, the console wars, the browser wars, Java vs any other language, anime or cartoons, coke or pepsi, ford vs chevy (not as big a deal now, but it MATTERED! when I was a kid), sport team A vs sport team B, scripted tv vs reality tv, football (American football) vs football (soccer), etc, etc, etc. Every single one of them fits that same criteria of circular arguments, spreading and growing like a virus, and being full of rhetoric.

    I agree that it is frustrating, but it is definitely not unique to this topic or Red-rage in general. As long as people aren't personally attacking each other, there isn't really much we can do, no matter how much I wish there was.

    --------------------------------------------------

    Yes and I also take issue with the implication that sideways progress is somehow bad or undesirable. More types of active blocks would definitely be sideways progress, but I doubt anyone would argue that would be bad progress. It, again, comes down to Red having just gotten bored with working on Terraria. You can see examples of the same phenomenon by looking at any mod forum on the net. They are all full of people with big ideas that start a project, get bored, and abandon it. The difference is that mods are free and the developers therefor don't owe their users anything, while Terraria is a commercial product and because of the monetary cost does have some responsibility to their customers.

    While I get your point and basically address your questions with my response to Loki above, I would like to add to it a bit.

    As someone who is a programmer by trade and as a hobby, there are very few jobs that are less time demanding than coding, especially the longer you do it and doublely especially if you are working on your own project that has no deadlines other than the ones you set yourself. Besides that, Red's mention of already working on a new project kinda throws all of the "he didn't have enough time to work on Terraria" theories out the window. If he can design, prototype, and/or program on a new project, then he could have instead stuck with the project he already sold to people.

    First, taking the easy opportunity for a jab at Red, doing things the "right" way doesn't seem to be much concern to him. :p

    Anyone who says it is "easy" to do anything in the game's spaghetti code plain and simple doesn't know what they are talking about. Adding an item may be easy in comparison to doing more complex things inside the Terraria code, but compared to other, better written codebases it is not easy. Even if you know exactly what you have to do, annoying is the best I would think one could describe it.

    Personally, I think all of Red's reasons fall on the scale somewhere between flaky and irrelevant, but the one that irks me the most is, to paraphrase, "I've learned what I can from making Terraria and want to start a new game so I can apply that new knowledge."

    That means that I was effectively sold a hello world program without being told ahead of time that is what I was buying. I've personally made hundreds of programs just so I could learn a new skill, technique, or library and I've seen thousands more prototype software made by other programmers for the same reasons. And you know what none of us had the utter gall to do? Market our software as a finished product and charge people money to use it. Red isn't first or only one to do this (Notch, as always, is the perfect example of everything a good developer should not do), but that doesn't make it right. It is the equivalent of writing a speech for an english or whatever class and then charging your friends and family to listen to you practice reading it out loud, only worse because at least those friends and family would know what they were getting before they handed over any money.

    --------------------------------------------------

    This is a long post, even for me, so her is the highlights. Interesting note, it took me longer to write this condensed version than it did the entire rest of the post. Damn words are just so much fun I can't help but want to write down so very, very many of them. :)

    To summarize, I agree that people who pick just one reason and parrot it to the exclusion of all the others, without providing any reasoning behind their opinion are frustrating and it gets old. I also agree that the rude wording of some is uncalled for. However, that behavior is not unique to this topic and just represents the lack of reasoning skills in the majority of the internet. In my previous posts, I was not defending those that harp on the baby reason, only trying to offer some possible reasons for why that issue is brought up and focused on so much. I don't particularly care for any of his reasons and find them all lacking. If this was just a learning experience for Red then the game should have been freeware or donationware, commercial products come with professional responsibilities. I've boycotted plenty of industry franchises and companies and it saddens me to have to do the same to an indy developer.
     
  18. kirabook

    kirabook Ex-Min Staff Member

    No worries Jeckel, I recognized that you were just mostly bringing up reasons rather than agreeing. XD

    I'm still a newbie to a lot of things (slowly stepping up in the IT department as my specialization is web development), and from the experiences I have had thus far with work and even just projects in class, I often don't have the time to do the intensive hobbies I used to do. (for example, I used to make Sims machinima videos, no matter how bad they were) That said, we still don't really know what Red's situation is, so I can't exactly judge, but I imagine it had something to do with IT or CS or something or other. It seems to me that he was pretty new to some of this coding stuff, which, while I haven't looked at it (I'll admit, I suck at most coding languages. Only real coding language I learned was Java and I detest it with a passion), most people like you mention how bad/mediocre it is. I wouldn't be surprised if Terraria is very time consuming/tasking for him.

    As for the "Terraria is only a test thing", I kinda figured it was from the beginning. I buy all indie games with that assumption, because I want to help indie companies get better and make their game great with my (terrible) suggestions. I've done it for Crea (which isn't out yet :() and Towns, though I haven't contributed to the community yet. So in that regard, I can't say I'm shocked or disappointed that Terraria was only a test for him. But I am disappointed that he decided to give up on this test when he was only partially finished and didn't clean it up before taking his leave. I do expect indie companies to be better than that, but then again, I'm new to the indie scene for the most part.
     
    Jeckel likes this.
  19. Stackerzgame

    Stackerzgame Dungeon Spirit

    The difference is Oranjes dad probably had to work to feed him. While it's no excuse to quit a job because of one kid, Red is rich and had no need to continue on Terraria. If Oranjes dad ever got rich, I'm sure his dad would have quit in a day. Having a kid is a reason, not an excuse.
     
  20. Loki ISP

    Loki ISP Moderator Staff Member

    Nice post, Jeckel. A lot I can agree with there. Especially in regards to Honey BooBoo...and let's just chuck Jersey Shore in there too.

    Id say we agree that some of Reds statements lead more down the "I was done with this and have wanderlust for something else" road. That doesn't mean - as some have intimated - the birth of his kid was merely an excuse to mask the above.

    My point was - as you pointed out - there is nobility in taking on the charge and sacrifice of TRULY being an involved parent. Toughest and most rewarding job there is...and far too few desire or are up to the task. I hope he is.

    ...but, as with you, I don't think it was the primary motivator.

    Regarding societal norms...I prefer to view that slide in society as examples and things emblematic of the challenges I have to get my kids ready for. I was merely noting that the notion of a parent sacrificing career for kids - especially a male parent - being viewed as antiquated by society does not decrease the nobility of that decision.

    But, again....it wasn't the primary reason.

    Yay informed Internet discussion vs moebius strips of blather...

    (this thread has more moebius than any other)
     
    Jeckel likes this.

Share This Page